Loose Tuning Pins
Tuning pins in a cross cut pinblock
note the fine thread in the wood on on the right and the rust on the middle one (thats common in older pianos)
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Loose tuning pins
are sometimes are described by technicians as a stripped tuning pins. They can cause clunker notes in the bass and throughout the piano they show up most frequently in winter. Every piano is different but any piano can have and will develop loose tuning pins. Sometimes the piano will have just enough tension to hold its tuning only for the summer and not in the winter. Read about our case studies on loose tuning pins. |
Case Study: Loose tuning pins - 1919 Steinway Grand Model O
Torger working on Greg's Steinway O
Greg a professional musician owns a 1919 Steinway O that belonged to his grandfather.
I first tuned the instrument in 2013, the tuning held at A440 for the summer
then Greg's piano dropped the tuning quickly once fall arrived. It was once again a 1/2 step flat.
It had major clunkers in the bass and notes throughout the piano simply would not stay in tune and would move drastically once the tuning hammer was removed from the particular pin.
Gregs house was built in 1906 has radiator heat and window AC.
It has no humidity in winter and plenty of humidity in summer.
The average winter temperature at -20 outside is 68 degrees.
The options:
Restoration: He did not have the funds to restore.
Restring the entire piano with larger tuning pins
Replacing the bass strings and upsizing the tuning pins would have resolved the bass not staying in tune but would not have addressed the inherent tuning instability in the remaining 2/3rds of the piano.
Our Solution: We treated the entire pinblock with a 99% pure Cyanocrylate Treatment In winter which swells the wood around the tuning pins and one treatment resolved the loose tuning pin tension causing clunkers in the bass and throughout the piano and now the piano holds pitch at A440 and is expected to reasonably hold its pitch and tuning throughout the year.
Result Greg is back up and running and enjoying his grandfathers instrument. Restoration can always be done down the road but for now he has a usable stable instrument.
I first tuned the instrument in 2013, the tuning held at A440 for the summer
then Greg's piano dropped the tuning quickly once fall arrived. It was once again a 1/2 step flat.
It had major clunkers in the bass and notes throughout the piano simply would not stay in tune and would move drastically once the tuning hammer was removed from the particular pin.
Gregs house was built in 1906 has radiator heat and window AC.
It has no humidity in winter and plenty of humidity in summer.
The average winter temperature at -20 outside is 68 degrees.
The options:
Restoration: He did not have the funds to restore.
Restring the entire piano with larger tuning pins
Replacing the bass strings and upsizing the tuning pins would have resolved the bass not staying in tune but would not have addressed the inherent tuning instability in the remaining 2/3rds of the piano.
Our Solution: We treated the entire pinblock with a 99% pure Cyanocrylate Treatment In winter which swells the wood around the tuning pins and one treatment resolved the loose tuning pin tension causing clunkers in the bass and throughout the piano and now the piano holds pitch at A440 and is expected to reasonably hold its pitch and tuning throughout the year.
Result Greg is back up and running and enjoying his grandfathers instrument. Restoration can always be done down the road but for now he has a usable stable instrument.
Case Study: Loose Tuning Pins - Grey Market Yamaha Grand Model G2
This Yamaha grand piano Model G2 was donated to a church and the choir would use it to rehearse on
The prior tuner had tuned it a 1/2 step flat because it was unable to hold at the correct pitch of A440 - the universal standard pitch the piano in the church is tuned to. Not acceptable for choir practice. The prior tuner had also installed a humidity control system but it was overwhelmed because the challenging room environment which varies in temperature from 65 to 115 Fahrenheit and the seasonal humidity levels vary from 5% to 99% humidity because there is no air conditioning.
The options
Restore the piano with a new pinblock and restring it.
Restring the entire piano and upsize the tuning pins with the exsisting pin block
Re-pin with upsized tuning pins and use the original strings
treat the pinblock with a Cyanocrylate treatment.
The Yamaha G2's entire pinblock was treated with a 99% pure Cyanocrylate in July 2017 and the tuning held until mid December of 2018 when the continual subzero temperatures depleted all the humidity out of the room and piano. The tuning dropped off the piano at 25% humidity (nationally many pianos even recently tuned pianos north of Tenneasee lost their tuning after being exposed to these extreme continual dry conditions)
In January of 2018 I retreated the entire pinblock and re-tuned the piano. It holds and is back up and running
the choir sings at the same pitch as the church piano.
The prior tuner had tuned it a 1/2 step flat because it was unable to hold at the correct pitch of A440 - the universal standard pitch the piano in the church is tuned to. Not acceptable for choir practice. The prior tuner had also installed a humidity control system but it was overwhelmed because the challenging room environment which varies in temperature from 65 to 115 Fahrenheit and the seasonal humidity levels vary from 5% to 99% humidity because there is no air conditioning.
The options
Restore the piano with a new pinblock and restring it.
Restring the entire piano and upsize the tuning pins with the exsisting pin block
Re-pin with upsized tuning pins and use the original strings
treat the pinblock with a Cyanocrylate treatment.
The Yamaha G2's entire pinblock was treated with a 99% pure Cyanocrylate in July 2017 and the tuning held until mid December of 2018 when the continual subzero temperatures depleted all the humidity out of the room and piano. The tuning dropped off the piano at 25% humidity (nationally many pianos even recently tuned pianos north of Tenneasee lost their tuning after being exposed to these extreme continual dry conditions)
In January of 2018 I retreated the entire pinblock and re-tuned the piano. It holds and is back up and running
the choir sings at the same pitch as the church piano.
Findings
Loose pins can and will happen to any piano regardless of make or model.
Used pianos are more likely to suffer from this issue. But Improper rebuilds may have loose pins too.
Typical symptoms of loose pins include
the piano looses it's tuning quickly, sometimes just a section
the tuner struggles with it or certain notes drop
the bass section will not stay in tune.
Clunker notes occur throughout the piano.
If your piano has loose tuning pins or refuses to hold a tuning for long, ask if this is an option for your instrument. As there are more potential causes of tuning instability and the correct diagnosis is 95% of the battle.
Once treated, your piano will be more stable which means the tuning will last longer. However sometimes depending on the piano (and when treatment is applied) two treatments may be needed.
A stable piano is a good piano, but even a stable piano will be subject to the normal seasonal humidity variations. At the end of the day the better the environment is controlled the better off the piano will be.
Used pianos are more likely to suffer from this issue. But Improper rebuilds may have loose pins too.
Typical symptoms of loose pins include
the piano looses it's tuning quickly, sometimes just a section
the tuner struggles with it or certain notes drop
the bass section will not stay in tune.
Clunker notes occur throughout the piano.
If your piano has loose tuning pins or refuses to hold a tuning for long, ask if this is an option for your instrument. As there are more potential causes of tuning instability and the correct diagnosis is 95% of the battle.
Once treated, your piano will be more stable which means the tuning will last longer. However sometimes depending on the piano (and when treatment is applied) two treatments may be needed.
A stable piano is a good piano, but even a stable piano will be subject to the normal seasonal humidity variations. At the end of the day the better the environment is controlled the better off the piano will be.